Not sure where you keep getting 1 hour UGT is equal to 83 earth years… anyway, your statement is interesting. However, you seem to have forgotten about the other half of the world which would be cast into complete darkness during those exact 12 hours you speak of; thus a problem. On the other hand, it would make more sense to think back to Genesis or more specifically the first 3 days of creation and ask yourself, “What provided the light during that time?”

Clearly, the answer is God. God, Himself, was the light and will be the light once more in the New Kingdom (as you pointed out).

Those who believe the earth was created in six 24 hour literal earth days either lack scientific knowledge about the rotation of our planet upon its axis in relation to our sun; thereby causing them to totally fail to understand how time is measured here on earth, OR they read Genesis and could not comprehend it. The Bible clearly states that the sun was created on God day 4, therefore we ask those who doubt to give us a reason, anything at all, for why we should believe that the first 3 God days were a 24 hour period.

DIVINECODERS

An hour (God time) is equal to 41.66 years (earth time). Therefore, a 12 hour period in Universal God Time (UGT) would equal ~499.92 earth years (earth time). An interesting point to make is that no one has ever lived longer than one God day -for, all fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

Thanks for sharing!

DIVINECODERS

Please read our comments and articles more carefully. We are in fact blaming Augustine for this misconception. We are not using him as an authority, yet you wrote that we have.

You are in love with Luke, he wasn’t a witness. He was a disciple of Paul and his word is truth, but you ignore the word of the Holy Spirit as recorded in Revelation who told you that hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire!! What do you say about that? You haven’t argued that away -we want answers.

As far as we see it, if the Holy Spirit tells us that hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire, then it will be cast. And, you better believe that this is the second death -as in, no more.

Those cast into the Lake of Fire will perish.

DIVINECODERS

We haven’t quite covered every disagreement; however, we have covered most of them here at our blog -perhaps in the form of an article or comment. So, please feel free to browse the blog for all remaining topics.

To answer your question, Adam was given a soul when God “breathed into his nostrils”, this is when Adam became animated, thus alive. Without the soul, there can be no life and without life, there can be no soul:

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” (James 2:26)

In terms of the Tree of Life, we agree with your theory. The Bible clearly states that Adam and Eve could have chosen the Tree of Life:

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Genesis 2:16-17)

However, we do disagree with your position on flesh-based eternal life, because the Bible presents to you a problem. Here is where you stumble:

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Genesis 2:17)

And, here is where you fall:

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:” (Genesis 3:22)

So, if Adam and Eve ate the wrong fruit and for it they “shalt surely die”, then how could eating from the Tree of Life save them from death? If anything, the two would cancel out each other. Unless, the eternal life given applies only to the soul.

And, if you want to look at it another way: Let’s assume that you are right and that Adam and Eve were never meant to die, then tell us, what purpose does the Tree of Life have? Antidote? No matter how you look at it, in terms of flesh, it doesn’t add up.

Thoughts?

DIVINECODERS

To indicate they taught what they did is fine, but to use their teachings as your authority for your statements is fundamentally against the Apostle’s teachings. You will disagree, I understand, but that is the fact, and we are speaking of clearly ‘yes or no’ topics. So either you are right, and all the verses where Jesus stated there is an eternal place of torment for both people and Satan (and his angels) are false. Or what Jesus wrote is true.

The contradictions in your argument are glaring. Your judgement of who God is and how He chooses to show His love, is admirable but illogical. You state only how much God loves, and nothing about the massive number of verses in the Bible where God expresses rage, anger, and extremely harsh judgement. You take those verses out of context, reference non-Biblical sources, and also ignore the REST of the Bible, thus failing to prove your argument.

I’m welcome challenge to Biblical truth and facts, but yours fails the test.

I will leave you with only one glaring mistake you made, that “no other Christian teaching mentions an eternal hell before this, including Jesus.” — What then was Jesus referring to when He stated, in the chapter context of doing good or evil works (beginning at Mark 9:38):

Mark 9:43-48 And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your foot offends you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter lame into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. And if your eye offend you, pluck it out: it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.

Context – you, all of you (hands, feet, eyes, etc.) go into hell, fire never shall be quenched, fire is not quenched. There is no indication of symbolism. A reasonable reader quickly infers Jesus is speaking of a literal location.

Importance – Jesus repeats the same context three times, to ensure the message is clearly not misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Repetition of Context

You – a human being obviously (hands, feet, eyes)
Hell – 3 times repeated
Fire never put out – 3 times

geenna geenna gheh’-en-nah

of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:–hell.

pur pur poor

a primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning):–fiery, fire.

asbestoV asbestos as’-bes-tos

from 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of 4570; not extinguished, i.e. (by implication) perpetual:–not to be quenched, unquenchable.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, who after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Lastly, show me the many verses (i.e. in the entire Bible) stating clearly (not inferential or by your opinion) where all people will be saved. That is your argument, correct?

Show me the verses where Jesus, the other Apostles, the OT prophets, and Paul (who wrote the majority of the NT letters) clearly states, “We have all sinned, and though I said many will be lost and not go to Heaven, and Jesus said they will burn in Hell forever, what He and I REALLY meant is that they will go into purgatory for awhile, you know “Hell”, while there in Hell they will be purified by burning fire. Yes, they will suffer for awhile, not forever as Jesus said, and in the end every single human being God created will be saved because He loves them so much, and not because they must call on Jesus to be saved and forgiven of their sins (even though Jesus also said that and I did too).

In fact, you don’t have to call on Jesus at all or obey anything he said, because no matter what you have done, God loves you and because His love overrides His judgement of sin, even though He also judges sin harshly (yea, I know, I don’t get it either but you can have it both ways!), you can live like Satan here on Earth and God is going to take you with Him to Heaven forever! So eat, drink, and be merry! Do anything you want! Jesus loves you!”

I’d like to get a clear understanding of the CORE topics you consistently refute to ‘mainstream’ Christians. Please provide the topic and your definition for the meaning, purpose, etc., that you believe God intended to convey to us (i.e. all human beings) as the recipients of the book.

I note your strong command of verses, etc., but I do question your approach to God Himself and His word. Not in a condemning way, but from my own acceptance that “God’s ways are far beyond your ways”, and my clear understanding that I will always be learning more about God. This is not to exempt ourselves from clearly understanding the ‘basics’ of what it means to be a Christian, nor that we are to ‘study daily’ in the Bible to see if what other people tell us ‘is true’.

I admire your fervor and look forward to reading your core list.

I’ll end by commenting on you last comment:
“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
Again, suggesting that our soul is not eternal.

It appears you are putting the human body alone into this context? Are you saying Adam and Eve had no soul when they were first created? And what about the many other Bible verses that clearly discuss life after death relationships? I don’t follow your reasoning.

If you consider the context, the Lord is discussing Adam and Eve, who are living physical human beings at that moment in time. The only thing that has changed is their standing before God, and their nature. They were previously in good standing with God, ‘created in His image’. They had a perfect ‘all good’ relationship with Him.

In the context of the verses you quoted, Adam and Eve had just eaten the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thereby immediately passing into a state of sin before God. They ‘knew they were naked’, indicating a fundamental spiritual change had occurred in their soul, their personalities. To keep it simple, they did exactly what God said not to do, and had become incapable of fellowship with Him. They could do nothing to reverse what they had done.

The tree of life grants immortality, and in this case clearly meant flesh and blood ‘as I am now’ eternal life. God did not want people to live on Earth, in sin, forever. God is clearly not talking about post-physical death ‘souls’, correct

Recall also that Adam and Eve had BOTH trees available to them. I suggest God gave them free will and allowed them to choose. They could have chosen the Tree of Life, and lived alive on Earth with God forever, in the perfect relationship in which they were created. They chose the wrong tree, and God will not live with sin in His direct presence, and thus God determined to ensures Adam/Eve do not get to that tree of life. From this point forward, all people physically age and die a physical death.

It seems as if you might have confused us with someone else or have confused our message with something else, because we NEVER said that there was no life after death. There certainly is life after death -for those whose names are written in the Book of Life and are not cast into the Lake of Fire. In fact, this article is about exposing the truth in terms of Hell and whether or not it is eternal -as many mainstream Christians have and continue to suggest.

We will consider other viewpoints if and when they are able to withstand scrutiny. It’s important to thoroughly test everything -we are the light of the world and if our light shines upon falsities and reveals them as truth, then what good are we as lights? Therefore, we must represent our evidence as accurately as possible.

Luke 16:19-31 – This is a parable, therefore, it could be symbolic; however, we believe that Jesus gave us an accurate description of “prejudgment-afterlife” where we find that Heaven and hell are separated by a humungous chasm that essentially prevents to and from travel -as you stated. However, you added the word “eternal” and that is debatable.

You mentioned that the rich man isn’t burning up, therefore he must be eternal, yet that logic fails when we read Revelation 20:14:

“14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

Which suggests that hell is, indeed, not eternal. And, if you believe the rich man will stay in hell for all eternity, then that logic fails when we read Revelation 20:13:

“13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

To even assume that the soul is eternal completely contradicts the purpose of Jesus Christ, who died so that you could have eternal life:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

You see, God must give to you everlasting life. And, what does Genesis 3:22 say?:

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”

Again, suggesting that our soul is not eternal.

DIVINECODERS

But if you’ve no intention to consider other viewpoints, only you know that for sure. But it is not too hard for me to pick up on conversations where words start to get twisted from simple common sense, where intense hair-splitting starts happening over every single syllable, letter, word, potential meaning, context, etc., etc., etc. and again, basic common sense falls to the wayside. There is logical argument, and there is irrational argument. Most people, especially politicians, fall into the latter.

So here’s my pitch… while I’ve not read every item you’ve written in detail, it appears a couple key topics are living forever and Hell and the Lake of Fire (both declared as places of eternal life, but in suffering), and Heaven (another place declared as God’s place of dwelling and the destination of Christians, believers, saints, whatever label you wish to utilize, as all of them apply in the Text.

You’ve likely addressed these verses, but not to me.

Do you view the story of the Rich Man and Lazerous as fiction or symbolic, or real? It is the discussion of two men who have died (physically) and now exist in what is clearly an eternal (i.e. outside of space-time) dimension, and both in the same area or location, able to see and speak to each other, but separated by a great ‘gulf’, some obvious boundary of distance/space, where neither can pass to or from the other side.

One man is alive and at peace, hanging out next to Abraham (who had died some the other man is alive and suffering in ‘flames’ of fire. He is not burning up into nothingness or burnt bones, etc. In fact, he just keeps suffering and feeling pain, but apparently his body does not decay as a human body would. Also, he is desiring just a ‘drop of water’ to ease his suffering, he remembers his life, and family, back on Earth. Apparently understanding how he got there, he does not want his family coming to the same place, and he asks Abraham to send somebody back to warn them. Abe then states he can’t do that (to paraphrase), and the burning guy says, ‘Yea, but if they see somebody come back from the ‘dead’ (obviously meaning a dead human body that comes back to life), THEN they will believe.

So we have some basic facts:
- At least three people alive, though it is clear they physically died.
- We see they can feel, see, talk, hear, drink water, and remember their past life as a human being living on Earth.
- Abraham, alive and well, who lived for 175 years and died, about 2,000 years earlier. This does assume the rich man died at or near the generation of Jesus.
- One man in peace and calm, the other in flames of heat/fire/burning feeling and obvious distress.
- The rich man does not ask to be rescued. He does not scream ‘not guilty’. He makes no defense for himself, nor does he discuss why he is where he is. He does ask for his family to be rescued ‘from this place’.

If you think it is a fictional story, why? What other verses in the Bible support or contradict these verses? What do you infer from this information as it relates to 1) eternal life, 2) Heaven, 3) Hell, and 4) being with God and being separated from God?

What do you believe God Himself is telling you, either about you and/or about Him?